Discussion:
New Game thread GC vs Ivan
(too old to reply)
SAT W-7
2009-09-09 18:32:01 UTC
Permalink
Ivans last move was D-7 to D-5..

This should be a good game , does GC open better with the E-pawn ?
next game we play you can go back to the E-pawn .....Just wanted to try
a different opening to see how Ivan plays it....
SAT W-7
2009-09-09 19:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is E-7 to E-6


Glad i came back on line ....I am starting work two hours earlier this
week 5.00 PM today and Thursday and getting off two hours earlier ..
I2.30 AM ..

So far GC + 0.2 ....

Sanny are you sure you want me to move after 20 minutes ? Or should i
knock it down to ( I0 ) ( ten ) minutes ?

Right now i am doing the 20 min .....
Or 8 min , the same as your level ..or is it less ?

I can force Ivan to move at the same time GC does .....

well i will come back on line right before i have to leave for work ..by
by off line now ..i need to relax more because i am still tired..
help bot
2009-09-09 20:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move  is  E-7 to E-6
Glad i came back on line ....I am starting work two hours earlier this
week 5.00 PM today and Thursday and getting off two hours earlier ..
I2.30 AM ..
So far GC +  0.2 ....
Sanny are you sure you want me to move after 20 minutes ?  Or should i
knock it down to ( I0 ) ( ten )  minutes ?  
 Right now i am doing the 20 min .....
Or 8 min , the same as your level ..or is it less ?
I can force Ivan to move at the same time GC does .....
well i will come back on line right before i have to leave for work ..by
by  off line now ..i need to relax more because i am still tired..
...from working myself into an early grave.


So, I'm sitting in a restaurant this afternoon, and
on the big-screen TV there comes an ad: mort-
gage interest rates of 3.99% for 5/1 adjustible, one
percent or so more for fixed 30-year loans.

The claim is made that these are "historically low"
rates-- virtually never seen before... unprecedented
and amazing... record-setting lows... a once-in-a-
life-time opportunity... .

But still I work myself into an early grave, trying to
get out of debt, pay off the loan early. Suddenly,
there comes a tapping, a gently rapping on my
chamber door. What's this, I wonder? This
rapping on my vermillion-color door. Could it be
Death-- that annoying chap, who is tapping at my
door? No matter... I must pay off the debt, no
matter how low the interest rate, I tell myself.

And back to work I go-- back to working for the
man who own shares of the company that I work
for. I don't care if rates drop to zero percent-- I
must pay off the debt... must pay it off right now,
I tell myself. It's as close to building the house
myself as I can get. Let them lower rates all they
want-- I will never surrender! I will fight them in
the trenches; I will fight them in the hills; I will
fight them, fight them and never surrender... .


-- help bot
SAT W-7
2009-09-09 21:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Helpbot that was funny..

I owe 2I,750 $ left , i know the interest rates are low now but out of
my 835 $ a month mortgage i have around 430 $ going to principal ?
Something like that ... ? i need to look to see exactly ..
+ i pay extra every month so next month my goal is to pay the 750 $
off , so 430 + 320 = 750 so at the start of October i want to be down to
2I,000 $ ....I am not sure i can do that but i will sacrifice to try and
get it done..

I am buying new windows so i am not sure i can knock off that much money
?

I do not want to start all over on interest ..I think my place will be
paid off in less than two years ......If i can keep up the pace ...

Well Sanny off to work..

By the way helpbot i work 5 days a week and so far i have been lucky not
to have to be scheduled for OT ..Over Time ... I have worked so much
scheduled over time in the last ten years to be sick of it ..

when it will be paid off my monthly mortgage will drop from 835 $ to
less than 300 $ ...I can not rent an apartment for that little ....

Sanny i am off until 2.00 AM..

by by
help bot
2009-09-09 23:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Helpbot that was funny..
 I owe 2I,750 $ left , i know the interest rates are low now but out of
my 835 $ a month mortgage i have around 430 $ going to principal ?
Something like that ... ?  i need to look to see exactly ..
   + i pay extra every month  so next month my goal is to pay the 750 $
off , so 430 + 320 = 750 so at the start of October i want to be down to
2I,000 $ ....I am not sure i can do that but i will sacrifice to try and
get it done..
I am buying new windows so i am not sure i can knock off that much money
?
  I do not want to start all over on interest
Don't give the evil Mr. Wlod any more ammo!
You have constructed a very false dichotomy,
as:

A) continue paying down the mortgage like
an obsessed madman

OR

B) refinance the entire balance and eventually
rot in debtor's prison.


The trouble with this "reasoning" is that it
willfully ignores the (vast) middle ground.
Post by SAT W-7
..I think my place will be
paid off in less than two years ......If i can keep up the pace ...
Stop! You cannot waste time posting here
in rgc, playing a silly board game with Sanny;
back to work, you idle slave! (Where is my
bullwhip?)
Post by SAT W-7
when it will be paid off my monthly mortgage will drop from 835 $ to
less than 300 $ ...I can not rent an apartment for that little ....
But nobody has suggested you rent one; the
actual idea was to carefully consider your plan
to work yourself to death in order to pay off the
mortgage as quickly as possible, in view of the
fact that mortgage interest rates are perhaps
even lower than the real rate of inflation.

Under different conditions, such as absurdly
high interest rates and low inflation, your plan
would make perfect sense. But with the
current conditions, you may well be tilting at
a windmill... .


-- help bot
madams
2009-09-10 02:15:51 UTC
Permalink
help bot wrote:
.
Post by help bot
You have constructed a very false dichotomy,
A) continue paying down the mortgage like
an obsessed madman
OR
B) refinance the entire balance and eventually
rot in debtor's prison.
The trouble with this "reasoning" is that it
willfully ignores the (vast) middle ground.
======

Oh, sweet-weeping-willy & holy-mother-mary-of god:

......he should sacrifice his beloved 'dodge' - the one with the
hemi-decals & tatty interior - it's just 'right' for mr-gates hobby
collection, so there should be no problem with the $99,999 + 50c asking
price - plus, he should be in line for the $4,000 clunker bonus also, no
need to concern himself with boring interest rates - the world would be
his crustacean; an eco friendly 'pious', a new pair of hush-puppies & a
swish computer would be his for the snapping-fingers..

.bot I've figured out who SAT really is!!

-- his first name's frank & he's going to do it HIS way.

======
Post by help bot
Post by SAT W-7
..I think my place will be
paid off in less than two years ......If i can keep up the pace ...
Stop! You cannot waste time posting here
in rgc, playing a silly board game with Sanny;
back to work, you idle slave! (Where is my
bullwhip?)
Post by SAT W-7
when it will be paid off my monthly mortgage will drop from 835 $ to
less than 300 $ ...I can not rent an apartment for that little ....
But nobody has suggested you rent one; the
actual idea was to carefully consider your plan
to work yourself to death in order to pay off the
mortgage as quickly as possible, in view of the
fact that mortgage interest rates are perhaps
even lower than the real rate of inflation.
Under different conditions, such as absurdly
high interest rates and low inflation, your plan
would make perfect sense. But with the
current conditions, you may well be tilting at
a windmill... .
-- help bot
help bot
2009-09-10 02:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by madams
......he should sacrifice his beloved 'dodge' - the one with the
hemi-decals & tatty interior - it's just 'right' for mr-gates hobby
collection, so there should be no problem with the $99,999 + 50c asking
price - plus, he should be in line for the $4,000 clunker bonus also, no
need to concern himself with boring interest rates - the world would be
his crustacean; an eco friendly 'pious', a new pair of hush-puppies & a
swish computer would be his for the snapping-fingers..
          .bot I've figured out who SAT really is!!
-- his first name's frank & he's going to do it HIS way.
The cash-for-clunkers program has already
ended. (Don't they get any news in Vermont?)

Anyway, Mr. Sat cannot seem to get past his
oddly-constructed straw man, the one which is
rotting in debtor's prison after having mortgaged
the farm, taken the money to Las Vegas, bet it
all on the red or the black and lost everything on
a whim. He will of course -- after he gets off
work from his ditch-digging job in the snake pit
near Sulphur Springs -- see this post and once
again recite his mantra: must work, must pay
off the mortgage right now, holy Ra, creator of
all things! Da-doo-Ra-ra-ra de-do-Ra-ra!

I have forgotten the Web site which allegedly
contains the "real" rates of inflation, after re-
adjusting for all the fudging done by government
hacks and lackeys. Suffice it to say, if one
could invest in inflation itself , bonds and stocks
would soon be given the Order of The Boot.


-- help bot
madams
2009-09-10 08:14:25 UTC
Permalink
help bot wrote:
.
Post by help bot
The cash-for-clunkers program has already
ended. (Don't they get any news in Vermont?)
Vermont [?] - strangely reminiscent of Voldemort say thou not [?]

...but I digress

& figure Vermont some rolling pasture of bovine content

& rumplestiltskin sheep, a pleasant land far removed from the affairs (&
cares) of man

- & btw, one upon which I've yet to attend ...

Bot I discern a sortof custard internecity in the land of sitting-bull &
deep river untrammeled by greek discus hurlers wherein god-thought
emanates of yore ...

...a rift the size of an assagi-spear thrust describes the
spilled guts of those in Seattle who bicker non-stop with Washington,
those in Dallas who just love being in the face of them in Noo-Yawrk &
of course the hoosier redoubt of Indianapolis which breathes having a go
@ everyone - c'mon down Ms Witchita!!

- heh! he he.. velcum to 'murica...

chortle..

m.
Post by help bot
Anyway, Mr. Sat cannot seem to get past his
oddly-constructed straw man, the one which is
rotting in debtor's prison after having mortgaged
the farm, taken the money to Las Vegas, bet it
all on the red or the black and lost everything on
a whim. He will of course -- after he gets off
work from his ditch-digging job in the snake pit
near Sulphur Springs -- see this post and once
again recite his mantra: must work, must pay
off the mortgage right now, holy Ra, creator of
all things! Da-doo-Ra-ra-ra de-do-Ra-ra!
I have forgotten the Web site which allegedly
contains the "real" rates of inflation, after re-
adjusting for all the fudging done by government
hacks and lackeys. Suffice it to say, if one
could invest in inflation itself , bonds and stocks
would soon be given the Order of The Boot.
-- help bot
Sanny
2009-09-10 04:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move  is  E-7 to E-6
Ok. GetClub played Bd3.

Very Symmitrical game Both player have same pieces ahead on king
side.

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3

Opening Stage. Moves from wrote.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny are you sure you want me to move after 20 minutes ?  Or should i
knock it down to ( I0 ) ( ten )  minutes ?  
IVAN should take 20 min / move like in last game between Ivan & Normal
Level..

Normal Level is now 10 times Stronger So even when it takes Just 2
min / move. Its moves will be as good as earlier when it used to take
16 min / move.

Last time Normal Level used to think 16 min / move. But now the Normal
Level plays same moves in just 2 min / move. As GetClub has been
improved 10 times from the time we last played.

So I have reduced Time Taken by Normal Level from 16 min / move to 2
min / move While the Strength of game is same as earlier. Thats the
advantage of improving GetClub 10 times in 2 months.
 Right now i am doing the 20 min .....
Or 8 min , the same as your level ..or is it less ?
Since IVANs strength is same as earlier you should keep it thinking 20
min / move just like last time. IVAN will have to think a lot to beat
the Normal Level (2 min / move) As now GetClub plays 10 times
stronger.
I can force Ivan to move at the same time GC does .....
No need, Now GetClub plays 10 times Stronger. So let IVAN think for 20
min / move vs GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)

IVAN (20 min / move) vs Normal (2 min / move) will be a equal game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot
2009-09-10 06:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)
1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3
Sanny, this is the well-known Colle System,
an opening I once played but gave up when I
discovered that Black can easily equalize by
regurgitating one row of moves from ECO,
BCO, MCO, or any of the innumerable other
"xCO"s, by rote.

Although successful against many lesser
players, I ran into trouble when I ventured to
play this opening against a Chicago area
master. He simply rattled off the main line
I later discovered was published /virtually
everywhere/, with the notable exception of
my Colle System book by Mr. Koltanowski,
from which I had learned the opening.
Once I was out of book in this completely
unfamiliar position, I was quickly torn to
pieces tactically by the master.

Still, I did have more than a few games in
which I managed to apply the lessons learn
-ed from "Kolty", and even one game in which
I had a then very young Mr. Finegold busted,
although I failed to win. The best part was
that by playing this zero-advantage opening,
I thereby avoided getting a huge disadvan-
tage, as had been usual for me. For the
first time, I discovered what it was like to
play the middlegame on equal terms-- not
from a position in which I was being
squashed like a chicken in the road.

Still, one could play the p-b3 line and thereby
avoid the long variation published in so many
openings encyclopedias, memorized by-rote
by innumerable book-monkeys, and which
takes all the fun out of playing this system.
However, I suspect that this too is ineffective
against reasonable defense; the problem is
that one is fianchettoing a Bishop which is
blocked by one's own center pawn.

And yet, I've seen the reverse system, the
Queen's Indian Defense, be quite effective
against some strong players; many games
show White fumbling for any advantage,
refusing to admit he has none whatsoever,
and then committing a tactical error in the
pursuit of justifying his previous play or
refusal to admit "no advantage to White".
One problem is the fact that lots of heavy
pieces /can/ get exchanged along the c-
file, leading to rather dull play.

Anyway, my money is on Ivan (again).
I'm betting that GC will get squashed like
a watermelon that is trampled by a bull
elephant, then ripped to shreds by an
angry Bengal tiger, and lastly, bitten re-
peatedly by a King Cobra.


-- help bot
SAT W-7
2009-09-10 09:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move F-8 to E-7

OK Sanny 20 min it is...

Helpbot , i do not trust my job either , i can get knocked to the
jobbers list ( unemployment line ) again...Last time i was on the
jobbers list i was there for 5 years .....My house would have been paid
off by now if that would not have happened.
My company is slow so that worries me a little bit .....

I do have 8 ounces of gold .....5 i bought around 250 $ a ounce and 3
around 930 $ a ounce..

The jobbers list , they do not lay you off they put you on a list and
it go's by seniority , i was number II , and if they have work for you
they schedule one to 5 days or swing shift or night shift you and if
they do not have work then your off one to 7 days a week .. BUT if
your OFF work can call you in 24 hours a day because we run 24 hours
...One time i woke up at 8.00 AM and then went to bed around I0 PM and
around II.00 PM my phone rang , i answered it and the boss said , come
in right now we need you ..So i went in , got there around I2.I5 AM and
clocked in at I2.30 AM and then got stuck for I2 hours and got off at
I2.30 PM ...I had been awake since 8 AM the day before ..Then i got home
and later that night the phone rang and it was work , i let my answering
machine get it ..
I did not go in ......

nite
Sanny
2009-09-10 13:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move  F-8 to E-7
GetClub Played: 0-0 Chastling King side.

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)


GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)


1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0

Opening Stage. Moves from wrote.
OK Sanny 20 min it is...
Yes thats good.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-10 16:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Castle , King to G-8 and Rook to
F-8 ......

Looks like Ivan will castle too , that is the only move it has been
thinking about now at I3 min..Will wait the 20 min......

Yes Helpbot was right so far about this opening it is even 0.0 ....

8.45 AM now just woke up but going to go back to sleep for awhile if i
can.....

Sanny did you see the movie " Slum Dog Millionaire ?" I hear it is a
good movie and it is about your country ..I never seen it but i think it
is out on DVD now ......

Now I8 min in it just went to Ivan - 0.I ........Still thinking of
castling....It is at PLY 7 ....
Ok 20 min and the move is 0.0 castle..

Now that GC and Ivans Kings are safe both computers can fully
concentrate on the other pieces .......

This is a good game so far .....

going back off line now but i will come back on around I.45 PM Seattle
time ......almost 9,00 AM now ..Just need more rest for work tonight..by
Sanny
2009-09-11 07:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Castle , King to G-8 and Rook to
F-8 ......
GetClub Played: Knight at b1 to d2.

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2

Opening Stage. Moves from wrote.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Post by SAT W-7
Sanny did you see the movie " Slum Dog Millionaire ?"  I hear it is a
good movie and it is about your country ..I never seen it but i think it
is out on DVD now ......
Not not yet. I will see it when I have time. I am busy with GetClub
Chess at the moment.
Post by SAT W-7
Now that GC and Ivans Kings are safe both computers can fully
concentrate on the other pieces .......
Thats why I choose this opening moves. I try to minimize exchange and
attacks. Let it leave those for the Engines Else Opening Itself will
finish half of the game.

Next move will be played by Chess Engine.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-11 09:27:28 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move Knight B-8 to D-7

GC + 0.I

The only different move we have made is the Bishop move...

2.23 am now..

Back to my old start time hours next week , 7.00 PM.....I hate starting
at that time too.but i have too....


nite

GC needs to get way a head in the middle game to have a chance in the
end game..
Sanny
2009-09-12 05:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move Knight B-8 to D-7
Please wait I have to Setup GetClub to play from this board position
as Now Opening moves are over.

I will Reply GetClub move soon.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny
2009-09-12 12:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move Knight B-8 to D-7
GetClub Played: Knight at f3 to g5.

Time: 700 sec
Score: 0.25+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 22

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5

First move out of Opening by GetClub Normal Level.
Post by SAT W-7
GC needs to get way a head in the middle game to have a chance in the
end game..
Every thing is in GetClubs hand.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-12 19:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Pawn E-6 to E-5 ..

It has been thinking of only one move that has been showing on the
battle screen Pawn E-6 to E-5 ..It is at PLY level 7 and i think it
needs to think longer to get to 8 .....

Even game 0.0

I did not like GC last knight move ..That to me seems like a wasted
move.. I think i would have moved B-2 to B-3 to open up the black
bishop...

will look again before i have to get to work.
Or if i do not i will look when i get home from work around 4.00 AM
.Back to the later work shift ..
Sanny
2009-09-13 04:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Pawn E-6 to E-5 ..
GetClub Played: dxe5 took your e5 pawn.

You have only one move Nxe5

Then GetClub Played: . Nxh7 Killing your h7 pawn.

First Move:

Time: 150 sec
Score: 0.91+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 19

Second Move:

Time: 100 sec
Score: -0.25 loss for GetClub
Depth Ply: 19

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7
Post by SAT W-7
I did not like GC last knight move ..That to me seems like a wasted
move.. I think i would have moved B-2 to B-3 to open up the black
bishop...
It played Ng5 to start an attack on your king side. See that knight
has taken your h7 pawn weakening your king.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-13 11:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Ivans first move is Knight D-7 x E-5 pawn
Ivans second move is ..Knight F-6 x H-7 knight..

Yes it is thinking of taking the pawn with knight but i will let it go
for the 20 min ...

GC second move is a bold move , it will weaken the King protection
.Lets see , GC knight x h-7 pawn ..Then Ivans F-6 knight x knight ,
GC Queen to H-5 ......So now GC Queen and Bishop are attacking the
knight on H-7 ....
How will Ivan stop that attack , i think it would move the E-5
Knight ( That is if it moves to take the GC pawn on E-5 , still thinking
I5 min now )
So E-5 knight to G-6 stops that Queen & Bishop attack...

GC + 0.5 after first move

That second move made Ivan go crazy , it has been jumping up levels fast
, level 6 less than two min in .......Still thinking Knight x Knight .
Giving up a knight for pawn to weaken the King at this point in the
game i do not think was a good move ....I am thinking that knight move
was a blunder .


GC after second move is GC + 0.5

Nite , off line until i wake up in the morning , Football season starts
( not Soccer ) American football..
Sanny
2009-09-13 16:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Ivans first  move is  Knight D-7 x E-5 pawn
Ivans second move  is ..Knight F-6 x H-7 knight..
GetClub Played: . Bxh7 Bishop took your Knight.

Time: 100 sec
Score: 0.12+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 23

Now the depth ply has gone a lot high because many pieces has got
exchanged

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7
That second move made Ivan go crazy , it has been jumping up levels fast
, level 6 less than two min in .......Still thinking Knight x Knight .
Giving up a knight for pawn to weaken the King at this point in the
game i do not think was a good move ....I am thinking that knight move
was a blunder .
Ng5 was bad acording to Taylor Kingston. But Nxh7 was ok as GetClub is
one pawn up now.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
sd
2009-09-13 13:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Pawn E-6 to E-5 ..
GetClub Played: dxe5 took your e5 pawn.
You have only one move Nxe5
Then GetClub Played: . Nxh7 Killing your h7 pawn.
Time: 150 sec
Score: 0.91+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 19
Time: 100 sec
Score: -0.25 loss for GetClub
Depth Ply: 19
White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)
GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)
1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7
Post by SAT W-7
  I did not like GC last knight move ..That to me seems like a wasted
move.. I think i would have moved B-2 to B-3 to open up the black
bishop...
It played Ng5 to start an attack on your king side. See that knight
has taken your h7 pawn weakening your king.
Yes in order to give itself a lost game. I've seen better games by
rank beginners than this nonsense, and it isn't even move 10.
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-13 14:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by sd
Post by Sanny
It played Ng5 to start an attack on your king side. See that knight
has taken your h7 pawn weakening your king.
Yes in order to give itself a lost game.
Actually, 9.Nxh7 seems not so bad; in fact it may have been White's
best move at that point. It should result in a position where White
has an extra pawn but Black has compensation in the bishop pair and
quicker development. With Ivan not usually an aggressive attacker, GC
may be able to consolidate the extra pawn.
Post by sd
I've seen better games by
rank beginners than this nonsense, and it isn't even move 10.
IMO, the not-so-good moves so far are 7.Ng5?! (waste of time) and
7...e5?! (premature). Rather than push too early in the center, Black
might have played 7...h6 or 7...c5 with equality.
Sanny
2009-09-13 16:23:21 UTC
Permalink
  IMO, the not-so-good moves so far are 7.Ng5?! (waste of time)
I have not understood yet why you always say Ng5 a waste move?

It plays this move as I have given bonus for going near opponents
king.

In this game this helped GetClub in getting an extra pawn?

Well Knight can be forced back then that may be one reasion to call it
a waste of rime.

But incase h3 is played Diagonal c2-h7 of Black will become weak. Just
like you explained in last game with IVAN.

Playing h3 weakens Diagonal c2-h7 So Ng5 serves 2 purposes.

1. weakening Diagonal c2-h7
2. Threathening opponents King.

Secondly. In last game you said I should not give any bonus for
Chastling. So today a game was played where GetClub delayed Castling.

Then a few strong players told me GetClub should do Castling Quickly.
They said they have never seen GetClub doing castling on Queenside Do
you think I should give Bonus for Castling???

Earlier I had little bonus for castling. But since you said castling
was bad move in last game I removed the Bonus.

So Both ways I am being pushed. So what do you think. How much bonus
should be given for castling?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-13 18:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is King G-8 x H-7 Bishop


Will try and come back on before i leave for work.

so far a good game to me ..
Sanny
2009-09-14 05:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is King G-8 x H-7 Bishop
GetClub Played: . Qh5+ giving check

You have only one move K-g8 to save your king.

Then GetClub played Qxe5 taking your knight

Time: 40 sec
Score: 0.49+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 21

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5
Post by SAT W-7
so far a good game to me
GetClub is half point ahead.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-13 19:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
  IMO, the not-so-good moves so far are 7.Ng5?! (waste of time)
I have not understood yet why you always say Ng5 a waste move?
Then you're not likely to understand if I explain it yet again. So I
won't.
help bot
2009-09-13 21:46:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
  IMO, the not-so-good moves so far are 7.Ng5?! (waste of time)
I have not understood yet why you always say Ng5 a waste move?
  Then you're not likely to understand if I explain it yet again.
So I won't.
Sanny, although in this game Ng5 worked due to
a tactical blunder by the opponent, against correct
defense it would have resulted in a loss of time
(because there is no real attack here).

The correct way to handle this is for White to de-
velop all of his pieces, not commence speculative
(and vaccuous) "attacks" using just a few, proud
men; this is not the United States Marines. All of
White's pieces must work together in order to
launch a real attack-- one that cannot easily be
repelled, or simply ignored.

In this game, Black commited a tactical error
which reveals the "hidden" (though quite obvious
to strong players) tactical resources at White's
disposal in the Colle System. The trouble with
this system is that if Black keeps a watchful eye
on these cheap tricks (i.e. Bxh7+, Q-h5+, Qxe5)
and avoids reckless advances, there is nothing
stopping him from playing ...p-c5, developing his
QB, and equalizing. In fact, in lines where both
sides eventually advance their e-pawns to their
fourth ranks, simplifying trades can make the
job of playing for a win as White rather difficult
and the ease with which Black equalizes can be
irritating.

If your goal is merely to win, then GetClub's
N-g5 move suffices against tactically weak play-
ers, as we can see here. But there is nothing
there-- no attack which can be executed by the
heroic Knight without the willing cooperation of
a dull-witted opponent. It's like the helpmate
problem: how quickly can White win, IF his
opponent makes the worst possible moves?
1. e4 g5 2. Bc4 f6 3. Qh5++
Does this mean that e4 and Bc4 were great
moves? No. Rather, it shows that ...f6 was
a terrible blunder.

Now, the real question is, why did Ivan -- a
commercial chess engine -- not see just a few
plies deep, that it loses a pawn? If Ivan had
what every other commercial chess engine
presumably has, quiescent search, then it
ought to have seen this tactic almost instantly.

Can it be that Sanny has somehow managed
to "discover" another worthless chess engine?
Names like Magellan, Pizza-rro, and Eric the
Red leap to mind; Vespucci, Lewis and Clark,
the guy who /originally/ invented dynamite
(whose remains were unidentifyable for some
reason) and so on; will our Sanny one day go
down in history as the "discoverer" of bad
chess engines, using his own program as a
tool with which to dredge them up?


-- help bot
Sanny
2009-09-14 07:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
  IMO, the not-so-good moves so far are 7.Ng5?! (waste of time)
I have not understood yet why you always say Ng5 a waste move?
  Then you're not likely to understand if I explain it yet again.
So I won't.
  Sanny, although in this game Ng5 worked due to
a tactical blunder by the opponent, against correct
defense it would have resulted in a loss of time
Ok this thing has been corrected. Now in future GetClub will not go
for aimless attacks.

Play a new game and let me know do you find GetClub Stronger as it do
not play aimless moves.

Bye
Sanny

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-14 11:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move Bishop E-7 to F-6 ...

GC + 0.9

will GC be able to win the game with a pawn advantage ? last time GC
was UP a pawn , Ivan defended well and hung on for a draw.

nite.
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-14 14:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move Bishop E-7 to F-6 ...
GC + 0.9
  will GC be able to win the game with a pawn advantage ?  last time GC
was UP a pawn ,  Ivan defended well and hung on for a draw.
Black has compensation for the pawn, in the form of better
development, better central control, and the bishop pair. The extra
pawn won't matter much until the endgame, plus it's a rook pawn, which
is the least valuable of pawns. For the moment I'd say Ivan has
slightly the better game. However, to capitalize on its current
advantages, Ivan needs to play actively and economically in the middle
game, and avoid the aimless dithering it sometimes falls into.
Sanny
2009-09-14 15:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move Bishop E-7 to F-6 ...
GC + 0.9
  will GC be able to win the game with a pawn advantage ?  last time GC
was UP a pawn ,  Ivan defended well and hung on for a draw.
GetClubs end game is weak so having extra paen will help it draw. Ity
need +2 pawns to get a quick win. I am happy GetClub was able to get
ahead in this game just after 12 moves
  Black has compensation for the pawn, in the form of better
development, better central control, and the bishop pair. The extra
pawn won't matter much until the endgame, plus it's a rook pawn, which
is the least valuable of pawns. For the moment I'd say Ivan has
slightly the better game. However, to capitalize on its current
advantages, Ivan needs to play actively and economically in the middle
game, and avoid the aimless dithering it sometimes falls into.
I think GetClub should now advance its king side pawns and start a
huge attack on king by pawns. There are 4 pawns on king sive while
only 2 on Ivans side.

So advancing King side pawns may lead to a quick win. As Ivans king is
unprotected. And it has 2 pawn less on king side.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot
2009-09-14 16:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
I think GetClub should now advance its king side pawns and start a
huge attack on king by pawns. There are 4 pawns on king sive while
only 2 on Ivans side.
So advancing King side pawns may lead to a quick win. As Ivans king is
unprotected. And it has 2 pawn less on king side.
Sanny, you are probably the funniest troll
in rgc! Start an attack with the Kingside
pawns... perhaps the White King can lead
the assault? After sacrificing both the
King and Queen to open things up, Black's
position will be indefensible... he will be
overwhelmed by the extra Kingside pawn--
all that will remain of White's army. (This
is the now-out-of-favor Great Men theory:
one pawn *can* make a difference... .)


-- help bot
Sanny
2009-09-14 17:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
I think GetClub should now advance its king side pawns and start a
huge attack on king by pawns. There are 4 pawns on king sive while
only 2 on Ivans side.
So advancing King side pawns may lead to a quick win. As Ivans king is
unprotected. And it has 2 pawn less on king side.
  Sanny, you are probably the funniest troll
in rgc!     Start an attack with the Kingside
pawns...  
Its my dream as I can see that at King side GetClub has +2 pawns. So
starting at attack will be a good idea.
perhaps the White King can lead
the assault?       After sacrificing both the
King and Queen to open things up, Black's
position will be indefensible... he will be
overwhelmed by the extra Kingside pawn--
all that will remain of White's army.    (This
one pawn *can* make a difference... .)
Do you feel I am wrong? Cite explanation

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-14 18:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Ivan move is Rook F-8 to E-8


Mr K is right Ivan is not aggressive , it sits back and try's to
capitalize on the other persons mistakes.....I am not sure what year
this computer was made ? Or who programmed it ..

GC + 0.9

Id like to step up and but the GM Excalibur but that is old not too and
i bet they have not upgraded the program since it was made many years
ago.....If i knew the chess program has been updated lets say in 2005 or
6 then id really think about buying one ....

Off line for awhile ..
Sanny
2009-09-15 06:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Ivan move is  Rook F-8 to E-8
GetClub played R-b1

Time: 250 sec
Score: 0.55+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 23

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1

This move Rook-b1 is of no use. May be to free the c1 Bishop. by
playing b3.
Mr K is right Ivan is not aggressive , it sits back and try's to
capitalize on the other persons mistakes.....I am not sure what year
this computer was made ? Or who programmed it ..
Thats the advantage to GetClub. Now GetClub do not do big mistakes. So
IVAN has to find some other way to win.

Being a pawn down IVAN has now little chances to win. Maximum it can
do is draw the game.
Id like to step up and but the GM Excalibur but that is old not too and
i bet they have not upgraded the program since it was made many years
ago.....If i knew the chess program has been updated lets say in 2005 or
6 then id really think about buying one ....
But the latest version and selloff your old IVAN. Then we can see how
GetClub faces the latest version. Are the games you play with IVAN
recorded?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-15 06:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Rook E-8 to E-5..
attacking GC Queen

Yes that was not a good move by GC ..

That Excalibur GM is very old too , it is stronger than Ivan but still
old..I bet they have not upgraded the program since it came out many
years ago , i think in the I990's ..
No none of the games are recorded ..I have never recorded a game either
.I wish i would have for the one and only game i ever beat Ivan at on
the strongest level...
Sanny
2009-09-15 07:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is  Rook E-8 to E-5..
attacking GC Queen
GetClub played Q-d1

Time: 80 sec
Score: 0.2+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 21

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1

Bring back Queen to d1
That Excalibur GM is very old too , it is stronger than Ivan but still
old..I bet they have not upgraded the program since it came out many
years ago , i think in the I990's ..
No none of the games are recorded ..I have never recorded a game either
.I wish i would have for the one and only game i ever beat Ivan at on
the strongest level...
Thats the advantage at GetClub. At GetClub Chess your all games are
recorded. So you can show your games to others for analysis.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-15 07:47:41 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move Queen D-8 to D-6

Yes that is a good feature the recorded games.

GC + 0.8 ....
Sanny
2009-09-15 13:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move Queen D-8 to D-6
GetClub played R-e1

Time: 200 sec
Score: 0.37+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 22

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1

IVAN has tough time to win this game
Post by SAT W-7
Yes that is a good feature the recorded games.
A few more features will be added soon.

Bye
Sanny


Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-15 14:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Bishop C-8 to D-7 ....

yes this will be a hard game to win for both Ivan and GC ...Right now GC
is sitting there playing defence if you can call those moves defensive.
GC will have to come out to play soon ..
This is going to be a long game but that is ok by me.....

Looks like Ivan wants to get the bishops together to form a long range
power projection across the middle of the board ....

GC is still leading because of the pawn advantage ..+ 0.7 .....But GC is
in trouble with development of it's pieces ...Too many on back
rank....It will be interesting too see if GC can over come it's lack of
devolvement and win this game ..

Going to try and go back to sleep , i woke up way to early because i
fell a sleep way to early last night...I hate going to work tired.....

I8 min in and now Ivan thinks GC is winning by + 0.9 ......Not sure why
?
Ivan changed it's move I9 min from Bishop C-7 to F-5 .......So the last
min it was thinking of Bishop C-8 to D-7 ......Then at 20 min i forced
it to move and that was the move .....I hope it was the right move , the
strongest move ....

by by

off line to try and go to sleep but i will check later today before i
leave for work..by by
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-15 14:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Bishop C-8 to D-7 ....
yes this will be a hard game to win for both Ivan and GC ...Right now GC
is sitting there playing defence if you can call those moves defensive.
GC will have to come out to play soon ..  
    This is going to be a long game but that is ok by me.....
Looks like Ivan wants to get the bishops together to form a long range
power projection across the middle of the board ....
GC is still leading because of the pawn advantage ..+ 0.7 .....But GC is
in trouble with development of it's pieces ...Too many on back
rank....It will be interesting too see if GC can over come it's lack of
devolvement and win this game ..
Going to try and go back to sleep , i woke up way to early because i
fell a sleep  way to early last night...I hate going to work tired.....
I8 min in and now Ivan thinks GC is winning by + 0.9 ......Not sure why
?
Ivan changed it's move I9 min from Bishop C-7 to F-5 .......So the last
min it was thinking of Bishop C-8 to D-7 ......Then at 20 min i forced
it to move and that was the move .....I hope it was the right move , the
strongest move ....
by by
off line to try and go to sleep but i will check later today before i
leave for work..by by
Both Rybka 3 and Fritz8 see the current position as completely even.
Sanny
2009-09-15 15:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Bishop C-8 to D-7 ....
GetClub played N-f3

Time: 400 sec
Score: 0.45+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 23

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3
Post by SAT W-7
yes this will be a hard game to win for both Ivan and GC ...Right now GC
is sitting there playing defence if you can call those moves defensive.
GC will have to come out to play soon ..
This is going to be a long game but that is ok by me.....
Now with Nf3, GetClub has started attack on your Rook.
Post by SAT W-7
Looks like Ivan wants to get the bishops together to form a long range
power projection across the middle of the board ....
GetClub too has one bishop left.
Post by SAT W-7
GC is still leading because of the pawn advantage ..+ 0.7 .....But GC is
in trouble with development of it's pieces ...Too many on back
rank....It will be interesting too see if GC can over come it's lack of
devolvement and win this game ..
Now knight has come out next move Bishop will also come out.
Post by SAT W-7
I8 min in and now Ivan thinks GC is winning by + 0.9 ......Not sure why
?
Ivan changed it's move I9 min from Bishop C-7 to F-5 .......So the last
min it was thinking of Bishop C-8 to D-7 ......Then at 20 min i forced
it to move and that was the move .....I hope it was the right move , the
strongest move ....
Nothing wrong with this move.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-15 19:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Rook E-5 to E-4

GC + 0.7

back off line ..
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-15 21:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook E-5 to E-4
GC + 0.7
back off line ..
Hmmm, to bad, perhaps. I rather liked 17...Rh5.
SAT W-7
2009-09-15 21:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Rook H-5 would have been a nice move ..Putting a lot of pressure on the
King ..+ with the bishops & Queen aiming at the King , GC would have to
play very good defence .,

In the 20 min ivan gets it did not show it thinking of any other move ,
i am sure it thinks about all the pieces but on the battle screen it was
only moving the Rook back and forth between
E-5 to E-4 .....

Makes me wonder if the GM Excalibur would have see the rook H-5 move ?

When ivan was made , they made it for a certain price ( money ) range
and elo range so it will not make the strongest moves .....
They were trying to sell these to average players ..In fact i think Ivan
was put out before Rybka ? + these are table top games , i can take it
anywhere very easy ..All the computer based chess engines need a
computer to use them.....I do not think Rybka would be as strong on a
table top game , or it would cost a lot more money than Ivan ever did
.

well i am off until about 4.00 AM Seattle time , i have a few things to
do before work ..I hate working nights , 7.00 PM to 2.30 AM but i guess
i should be happy i have a job.....

by by
madams
2009-09-16 00:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taylor Kingston
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook E-5 to E-4
GC + 0.7
back off line ..
Hmmm, to bad, perhaps. I rather liked 17...Rh5.
-----

Pourquoi que mon ami - cette variation conduit à un tirage au sort -
Non? ...

(17... Rh5 18. e4 Bg4 19. e5 Bxe5 20. g3 g6 21. Bf4 Kg7 22. Bxe5+ Rxe5
23. Rxe5 Bxf3 24. Qxf3 Qxe5) *

-----

m.
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-16 00:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by madams
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook E-5 to E-4
GC + 0.7
back off line ..
  Hmmm, to bad, perhaps. I rather liked 17...Rh5.
-----
Pourquoi que mon ami - cette variation conduit à un tirage au sort -
Non? ...
(17... Rh5 18. e4 Bg4 19. e5 Bxe5 20. g3 g6 21. Bf4 Kg7 22. Bxe5+ Rxe5
23. Rxe5 Bxf3 24. Qxf3 Qxe5) *
Why 18...Bg4? Fritz8 considers that a mistake, and prefers 18...Re8
in reply to 18.e4.
madams
2009-09-16 07:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taylor Kingston
Post by madams
Post by Taylor Kingston
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook E-5 to E-4
GC + 0.7
back off line ..
Hmmm, to bad, perhaps. I rather liked 17...Rh5.
-----
Pourquoi que mon ami - cette variation conduit à un tirage au sort -
Non? ...
(17... Rh5 18. e4 Bg4 19. e5 Bxe5 20. g3 g6 21. Bf4 Kg7 22. Bxe5+ Rxe5
23. Rxe5 Bxf3 24. Qxf3 Qxe5) *
Why 18...Bg4? Fritz8 considers that a mistake, and prefers 18...Re8
in reply to 18.e4.
Maintenant, alors mon bonhomme! ... Fritz8 est comme un tigre-citerne,
qui semblait invincible, mais il n'a pas le Boch perdre deux grandes
guerres déjà? ...

18 ... Bg4, est un mouvement fabuleux! - Plein de flair de l'homme et
l'ingéniosité. Bien sûr, 18 ...Re8 pourrait <être> considéré comme une
alternative ennuyeux, mais plus précisément comment avez Fz8 Score
18.e4. ...

m.
Sanny
2009-09-16 04:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook E-5 to E-4
GetClub played N-d4

Time: 160 sec
Score: 0.32+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 22

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4

Will IVAN exchange its Bishop for a knight?

If everything get exchanged GetClub will have an extra pawn and it can
then get Queen with that pawn.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot
2009-09-16 08:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4
Things were going quite well for as long as
Sanny was selecting the moves (i.e. d4, Nf3,
e3, etc.). But now that a Pentium computer
has taken over, things are beginning to look a
bit shaky on the King-side, and the machine
seems to want to move the same piece, over
and over again.

I think this may be purely a question of think-
ing power-- even ten Pentiums cannot begin
to match the calculating capacity of just one
Sanny; no wonder, then, that things appear
to be sliding downhill fast.


-- help bot
SAT W-7
2009-09-16 11:25:34 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Rook E-4 to H-4 ..

It was thinking Pawn C-7 to C-5 and now i is thinking Rook E-4 to H-4
..Mr K's move only one move later ...It has not been thinking of
trading bishop for knight..But we still have 9 min left to think....
Still thinking of rook to h file , maybe it see's what Mr K see's
...That was the move ..

This is a good example , it never even thought about trading bishop for
knights and that is the way you should make GC UNLESS , it really needs
to be traded ....Even my old talking chess challenger would not trade
that way.
Wish i still had that one ....

nite

will look when i wake up,,,,,

GC + 0.6
Sanny
2009-09-16 16:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook E-4 to H-4 ..
GetClub played Q-d3

Time: 170 sec
Score: 0.59+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 20

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4 Rh4
19. Qd3

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-16 16:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
GetClub played Q-d3
19. Qd3
Bye
Sanny
Yes, say goodbye to this game, Sanny. Almost any human player, even
a below-average one, would have seen the need to play 19.Nf3 or 19.h3.
But GC has just launched itself on another belly-flop into Blunder-
land! I love it!
None
2009-09-16 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
GetClub played Q-d3
19. Qd3
Bye
Sanny
  Yes, say goodbye to this game, Sanny. Almost any human player, even
a below-average one, would have seen the need to play 19.Nf3 or 19.h3.
But GC has just launched itself on another belly-flop into Blunder-
land! I love it!
Nevertheless everytime you guys go to that site Sanny gets some
advertising money from the advertisers. See the pattern?
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-16 17:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by None
Post by Sanny
GetClub played Q-d3
19. Qd3
Bye
Sanny
  Yes, say goodbye to this game, Sanny. Almost any human player, even
a below-average one, would have seen the need to play 19.Nf3 or 19.h3.
But GC has just launched itself on another belly-flop into Blunder-
land! I love it!
Nevertheless everytime you guys go to that site Sanny gets some
advertising money from the advertisers. See the pattern?
I don't go to Sanny's site any more; haven't for quite some time. I
have no interest in anything there. I just get some enjoyment from
watching his hype blow up in his face here.
Sanny
2009-09-16 17:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
GetClub played Q-d3
19. Qd3
Bye
Sanny
  Yes, say goodbye to this game, Sanny. Almost any human player, even
a below-average one, would have seen the need to play 19.Nf3 or 19.h3.
But GC has just launched itself on another belly-flop into Blunder-
land! I love it!
Looks like there is some strange Bug. will have to check this position
to sort out that bug.

The game is over now.

Bye
Sanny
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-16 17:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
Looks like there is some strange Bug. will have to check this position
to sort out that bug.
"Strange"? Hardly. This is the normal state of affairs. Your program
does this kind of thing over and over.
Post by Sanny
The game is over now.
You're resigning without even waiting to see Ivan's move?
Sanny
2009-09-16 17:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
The game is over now.
  You're resigning without even waiting to see Ivan's move?
I will be removing the Bug and replay whites move. Its an interesting
game So I do not want to disturb the game due to a Bug.

Sat-w-7 wait for tommorow. I will remove the bug and have it play the
correct move. It would be great to see how GetClub plays without the
bug.

Q-d3 move is due to some Bug. I will remove the bug before playing the
correct move.

Please wait. Here its midnight. So work of removing Bug will take
16-24 hours max.

Bye
Sanny
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-16 18:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
Post by Sanny
The game is over now.
  You're resigning without even waiting to see Ivan's move?
I will be removing the Bug and replay whites move. Its an interesting
game So I do not want to disturb the game due to a Bug.
Sat-w-7 wait for tommorow. I will remove the bug and have it play the
correct move. It would be great to see how GetClub plays without the
bug.
Q-d3 move is due to some Bug. I will remove the bug before playing the
correct move.
Please wait. Here its midnight. So work of removing Bug will take
16-24 hours max.
Sanny, don't you realize this is cheating? You played your move. You
have to let it stand. You are not allowed to take it back and play
another. This is one of the basic rules of chess.
help bot
2009-09-16 20:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
Q-d3 move is due to some Bug. I will remove the bug before playing the
correct move.
Please wait. Here its midnight. So work of removing Bug will take
16-24 hours max.
  Sanny, don't you realize this is cheating? You played your move. You
have to let it stand. You are not allowed to take it back and play
another. This is one of the basic rules of chess.
Not everything is either black or white; there are
also many shades of gray.

In the rulebook (on page 93762, section 14, para-
graph 4) it is stated that:

"A game is between two players".


Thus, if *both* players were to agree, Mr. Bug's
move could be undone, the position reset to the
last one before Mr. Bug interfered, and GetClub
allowed to reconsider its situation.

Of course, if Mr. SAT were to object, then what
you wrote would indeed apply. As we know from
past experience, moves have been retracted in
these games before (due to operator errors and
the like). Sadly, when operators cannot be trust-
ed, such games as these are mere amusements.
For all we know, Sanny is now cranking up Fritz
in order to find his elusive "correct" reply... .


-- help bot
SAT W-7
2009-09-16 20:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Ivan move is Queen x H-2 pawn .....Then i took back BOTH Queen moves
....GC move now..


I have to let Ivan move then take back the move ....So i will ...Yes as
soon as GC made D-3 Queen move Ivan jumped to - 2.2....advantage .....
Only move it has been thinking about is
Queen x H-2 pawn....

Yes GC needed to move pawn to H-3 .......
Or if it moved G-2 to G-3 pawn attacking H-3 Rook then Ivan would move
Rook and then GC moves King to G-2 stopping Ivans white bishop from
grabbing the H-3 square ....I would have to study the game but i think i
like that move better.

Queen D-6 x H-2 pawn ...OK Ivan wins this game but i will take back
both Queen moves.
Check - and Ivan talks and it said " I will Destroy you..."
OK now i will take back the last two moves
Ivan said " Hey Cheater taking back move " ha ha ha.....

OK NOW BOTH QUEENS ARE BACK , Ivans Queen back on D-6 and GC Queen BACK
on D-I ..........NOW IT IS GC MOVE ......

Hey a lot of people responded to your Hubble Space Telescope question on
Rush board...
Yea we ( USA ) just put a few million $ into UP GRADING It , i am glad
we did ..I do not mind spending my tax $$$ on stuff like that ....It
takes some amazing pictures...

I will wait for your new move

Off now until about 4.00 AM ...

by by
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-16 21:43:17 UTC
Permalink
Ivan move is  Queen x H-2 pawn .....Then i took back BOTH Queen moves
....GC move now..
I have to let Ivan move then take back the move ....So i will ...Yes as
soon as GC made D-3 Queen move Ivan jumped to - 2.2....advantage .....
  Only move it has been thinking about is
Queen x H-2 pawn....
Yes GC needed to move pawn to H-3 .......
Or if it moved G-2 to G-3 pawn attacking  H-3 Rook then Ivan  would move
Rook and then GC moves King to G-2 stopping Ivans white bishop from
grabbing the H-3 square ....I would have to study the game but i think i
like that move better.
  Queen D-6 x H-2 pawn ...OK Ivan wins this game but i will  take back
both Queen moves.
SAT-W7, you know that you are being too generous, don't you? It was
very unethical, not to say cowardly, of Sanny even to ask for this
take-back, let alone presume to take it before you've had your say, as
he has done here. An honest man (which Sanny clearly is not) would
accept responsibility for his mistake and take the consequences, as
Fischer did when he committed a fingerfehler against Unzicker at
Buenos Aires 1960. You are under no obligation to grant Sanny this
favor.
I'm sure if I had said nothing, Sanny would still have thought
19.Qd3 was a good move, until Ivan disillusioned him.
If you are going to allow this take-back, be sure you still count
this as a win for Ivan. I'm sure all of Sanny's many critics here
will, though of course Sanny himself will probably try to weasel
around and say it doesn't "really" count. The fact remains that Ivan's
score is now +4 =1.
It's delightful to see this so soon after Sanny boasted than GC
would now blunder only once in 200 moves. Right.
Check - and Ivan talks and it said "  I will Destroy you..."  
OK now i will take back the last two moves
Ivan said " Hey Cheater taking back move "  ha ha ha.....
Ivan is right on both counts. And yes, the process of destruction
begins with 19...Qxh2+. As soon as I entered 19.Qd3?? on Fritz8, its
evaluation shot to about -8.78, i.e. Black would soon be the
equivalent of a queen up.
SAT W-7
2009-09-16 22:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Yes i consider this a win for Ivan , i mite write these down on
paper..The wins -loses & draws..

I do not mind letting Sanny take back his move.

Sanny gets people mad at him because he says GC is as good as Rybka ..

If i came here and said Ivan is as good as Rybka or Fritz people would
be mad at me too....

Hey i was looking at the new Fritz I2 that will be out soon and it looks
good ..I think it cost 75 $ .

I need to buy a real computer some day but i am not sure when since i
have so many other things i am spending money on....

well i am off until 4.00 AM ......

by by

Sanny move when you can ...

The Knight to F-3 is a good move too , saving the H-2 pawn and attacking
Ivans rook.....That might be the best move ?
help bot
2009-09-17 00:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Sanny gets people mad at him because he says GC is as good as Rybka ..
That was a good while back; now GetClub is five
times better.
Post by SAT W-7
I need to buy a real computer some day but i am not sure when since i
have so many other things i am spending money on....
There are several striking things about this game:

1) the fact that Sanny played the opening correctly;

2) the fact that GC actually spotted a pawn-winning
combination;

3) the fact that Ivan did not seem to spot it;

4) the fact that GC wisely pulled its Queen out of
the line of fire via Q-d1 instead of doing something
silly;

5) the unwarranted interference of Mr. Bug, just as
GetClub was consolidating its extra pawn-- the one
it had acquired via an ingenius, Tal-like sacrifice.


Clearly, were it not for this constant interference
of outsiders, GetClub would be the reigning world
chess champion... .


-- help bot
Sanny
2009-09-17 07:32:01 UTC
Permalink
5)  the unwarranted interference of Mr. Bug, just as
GetClub was consolidating its extra pawn-- the one
it had acquired via an ingenius, Tal-like sacrifice.
That Bug was removed, Now it played h3. The move most of the strong
players suggested.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-17 01:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Yes i consider this a win for Ivan , i mite write these down on
paper..The wins -loses & draws..
I do not mind  letting Sanny take back his move.
OK, then I might as well post how Fritz8 would have finished White
off after 19.Qd3?? Below is the main line of play as Fritz sees it. I
give no side variations, but I think it's very clear how Black wins in
all lines:

19.Qd3 Qxh2+ 20.Kf1 Rxd4! 21.exd4 Bg4 22.f3 Qh1+ 23.Ke2 Qxg2+ 24.Kd1
Bxf3+ 25.Re2 Re8 26.Be3 Bg5 27.Kd2 Bxe2 28.Qxe2 Bxe3+ 29.Kd1 Qh1+
30.Qe1 Qe4 31.Qe2 Re6 32.Ra1 Rh6 33.Qf1 Qxd4+ 34.Qd3 Qg4+ 35.Ke1 Qg2
36.Qxe3 Rh1+ 37.Qg1 Rxg1# 0-1
Sanny
2009-09-17 09:56:52 UTC
Permalink
  Queen D-6 x H-2 pawn ...OK Ivan wins this game but i will  take back
both Queen moves.
  SAT-W7, you know that you are being too generous, don't you? It was
very unethical, not to say cowardly, of Sanny even to ask for this
take-back, let alone presume to take it before you've had your say, as
he has done here.
Its not the game between me and Sat-w7. Its between two engines. If
there is a bug in engine. Removing that and playing correct move is
not cheating. After the bug was removed GetClub was allowed to think
over this move again and it played the correct move.

It played purely by thinking after bug was removed. It do not took
help from anyone else but made the correct move just by thinking on
its move.

Bye
Sanny
SAT W-7
2009-09-17 11:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Rook A-8 to E-8 ....

GC + 0.7

Ok we are back into the game.....

was it hard to take out that bug ?
Sanny
2009-09-17 15:19:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook A-8 to E-8 ....
GetClub played - B-d2

Time: 100 sec
Score: 0.27+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 19

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4 Rh4
19. h3 Re8
20. Bd2

Ivan planning to attack the King side. Now, GetClub too has taken out
its Bishop to defend itself. It would be very interesting game to
watch. Both have nearly equal benefits.

GetClub is a pawn up. While IVAN has 2 Bishops to fight with. It would
be a tough game for both GetClub and IVAN. and winning this game will
be a real challenge as each player can force a "Draw" by exchanging
all pieces.
Post by SAT W-7
GC + 0.7
Ok we are back into the game.....
was it hard to take out that bug ?
It was childs play. The more big the bug is the more easy it is to
spot it. Incase there is very small bug that leads to a difference of
less than 0.5 points. Such bugs are very difficult to spot.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
SAT W-7
2009-09-17 19:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Bishop F-6 x D-4 Knight ..
Then GC Pawn x Bishop ? I will put that in since i think that is what
GC will do .Then Ivan will make another move ..scroll down for all 3
moves ...


Now it trades bishop for knight ..

GC + 0.5


Move number one Ivan , bishop x knight
MOVE #2 GC , Pawn x Bishop ..
MOVE #3 Ivan , Rook H-4 x Pawn D-4 .

Are you will me on those moves Sanny ?

If GC makes a different move let me know and i will take back the other
moves ......

off until about 4 am after work.....
Sanny
2009-09-18 04:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Bishop F-6 x D-4 Knight ..
Then GC Pawn x Bishop ?  I will put that in since i think that is what
GC will do .Then  Ivan will make another move ..scroll down for all 3
moves ...
Now it trades bishop for knight ..
Move number one Ivan , bishop x knight
MOVE #2 GC , Pawn x Bishop ..
MOVE #3  Ivan ,  Rook H-4 x Pawn D-4 .
Are you will me on those moves Sanny ?
Yes GetClub Played same moves then took your rook at e8.

GetClub played - exd4

Time: 50 sec
Score: -0.63 loss for GetClub
Depth Ply: 18


Second move by GetClub - Rxe8 Taking your e8 Rook by Rook.

Time: 50 sec
Score: 0.51+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 20


You have only one move BishopxRook Bxe8

Third move by GetClub - Qe2 [Attacking your Bishop at e8]

Time: 200 sec
Score: -0.3 loss for GetClub
Depth Ply: 22

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4 Rh4
19. h3 Re8
20. Bd2 Bxd4
21. exd4 Rxd4
22. Rxe8 Bxe8
23. Qe2
Post by SAT W-7
If GC makes a different move let me know and i will take back the other
moves ......
GetClub made same moves then took your Rook at e8. After you took tyhe
Rook with Bishop GetClub played Q-e2 attacking your Bishop at e8.

Now both have equal number of pieces. looks like none of them will be
able to get a win. What do fritz say about this position?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot
2009-09-18 04:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
19. h3 Re8
20. Bd2 Bxd4
21. exd4 Rxd4
22. Rxe8 Bxe8
23. Qe2
Post by SAT W-7
If GC makes a different move let me know and i will take back the other
moves ......
GetClub made same moves then took your Rook at e8. After you took tyhe
Rook with Bishop GetClub played Q-e2 attacking your Bishop at e8.
Now both have equal number of pieces. looks like none of them will be
able to get a win. What do fritz say about this position?
I'm not using Fritz, but it is obvious that Sanny's
analysis is spot-on, as usual. Yes, Black has to
recapture on e8, and yes, Q-e2 attacks the un-
guarded Bishop on e8. (Sanny, has anyone ever
told you that your mind is very much like a steel
trap?)

White has offered up the extra pawn in order to
get back in the game. Now we have a situation
in which there are opposite-colored Bishops; do
you realize what this means? Of course you
don't, you patzer! So allow me to explain... .

In a simple ending, opposite-colored Bishops
often leads to a situation where neither side can
make progress, to a draw. But we are not yet in
a simple ending, and there's the rub. In complex
positions, in middlegames, either side may well
be able to press an attack by utilizing the unbal-
ance to his own advantage. For instance, were
White to create a weaknesses on the light color
squares near his King, there would be no way
to neutralize the opponent's QB by opposing it's
power with its counterpart, the White QB, as
they each move on different-colored squares.

In this sense, the attacker is a piece ahead!
But it often happens that the target is the enemy
King, and if one's own King is not participating
in the hunt, then one is /not/ effectively a piece
ahead, but even-up. That is, unless one cheats.
In conclusion then, we see that White is on top,
due to his, ah, extraordinary skills (playing from
books, taking back moves, etc.).


-- help bot
SAT W-7
2009-09-18 11:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Rook D-4 to E-4 ..attacking GC Queen..

That was a interesting explanation of the apostate colored bishops
.Thanks Helpbot....

nite

0,0 ..even game
Sanny
2009-09-18 12:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move is Rook D-4 to E-4 ..attacking GC Queen..
GetClub Played - Q-h5

Time: 300 sec
Score: -0.54 loss for GetClub
Depth Ply: 23

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4 Rh4
19. h3 Re8
20. Bd2 Bxd4
21. exd4 Rxd4
22. Rxe8 Bxe8
23. Qe2 Re4
24. Qh5
Post by SAT W-7
That was a interesting explanation of the apostate colored bishops
.Thanks Helpbot....
That goes over my head.
Post by SAT W-7
0,0 ..even game
Still equal??? GetClub showing a loss of 0.5 points to itself.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-18 15:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
Post by SAT W-7
That was a interesting explanation of the apostate colored bishops
.Thanks Helpbot....
That goes over my head.
The apostate colored bishops were appointed by the Roman emperor
Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus, 331?-363 CE). Called by some Julian
the Apostate, he worked to reverse the establishment of Christianity
as Rome's state-approved religion by his predecessors Constantine and
Constantius, and restore the polytheistic faith of the Greco-Roman
pantheon (Zeus, Apollo, Venus, Hermes et al).
To this end, he replaced many Christian bishops with men from Rome's
African provinces, where the old pagan faith was still strong. These
men of dark complexion became known as the apostate colored bishops.
They were also very good chess players, but, rather like Petrosian,
Geller and Keres at Curaçao 1962, they had a "gentlemen's agreement"
that whenever two of them played each other, they would agree to an
early draw, so as to save their strength for games against Christian
adversaries. That is why to this day a game involving apostate colored
bishops is considered a probable draw.
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-18 19:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
That was a interesting explanation of the apostate colored bishops
  The apostate colored bishops were appointed by the Roman emperor
Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus, 331?-363 CE). Called by some Julian
the Apostate, he worked to reverse the establishment of Christianity
as Rome's state-approved religion by his predecessors Constantine and
Constantius, and restore the polytheistic faith of the Greco-Roman
pantheon (Zeus, Apollo, Venus, Hermes et al).
  To this end, he replaced many Christian bishops with men from Rome's
African provinces, where the old pagan faith was still strong. These
men of dark complexion became known as the apostate colored bishops.
  They were also very good chess players, but, rather like Petrosian,
Geller and Keres at Curaçao 1962, they had a "gentlemen's agreement"
that whenever two of them played each other, they would agree to an
early draw, so as to save their strength for games against Christian
adversaries. That is why to this day a game involving apostate colored
bishops is considered a probable draw.
For more on this subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_the_Apostate

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Julian/Gore-Vidal/e/9780375727061/?itm=1
Mike Murray
2009-09-18 21:35:52 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Taylor Kingston
Post by SAT W-7
That was a interesting explanation of the apostate colored bishops
  The apostate colored bishops were appointed by the Roman emperor
Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus, 331?-363 CE). Called by some Julian
the Apostate, he worked to reverse the establishment of Christianity
as Rome's state-approved religion by his predecessors Constantine and
Constantius, and restore the polytheistic faith of the Greco-Roman
pantheon (Zeus, Apollo, Venus, Hermes et al).
  To this end, he replaced many Christian bishops with men from Rome's
African provinces, where the old pagan faith was still strong. These
men of dark complexion became known as the apostate colored bishops.
  They were also very good chess players, but, rather like Petrosian,
Geller and Keres at Curaçao 1962, they had a "gentlemen's agreement"
that whenever two of them played each other, they would agree to an
early draw, so as to save their strength for games against Christian
adversaries. That is why to this day a game involving apostate colored
bishops is considered a probable draw.
Other emperors also impacted chess. For example, the strength of
blindfold play in the Balkans increased measurably during the reign
of Emperor Basil.
Taylor Kingston
2009-09-18 21:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Murray
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Taylor Kingston
Post by SAT W-7
That was a interesting explanation of the apostate colored bishops
  The apostate colored bishops were appointed by the Roman emperor
Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus, 331?-363 CE). Called by some Julian
the Apostate, he worked to reverse the establishment of Christianity
as Rome's state-approved religion by his predecessors Constantine and
Constantius, and restore the polytheistic faith of the Greco-Roman
pantheon (Zeus, Apollo, Venus, Hermes et al).
  To this end, he replaced many Christian bishops with men from Rome's
African provinces, where the old pagan faith was still strong. These
men of dark complexion became known as the apostate colored bishops.
  They were also very good chess players, but, rather like Petrosian,
Geller and Keres at Curaçao 1962, they had a "gentlemen's agreement"
that whenever two of them played each other, they would agree to an
early draw, so as to save their strength for games against Christian
adversaries. That is why to this day a game involving apostate colored
bishops is considered a probable draw.
Other  emperors also  impacted chess.  For example, the strength of
blindfold play in the Balkans  increased measurably during the reign
of Emperor Basil.
I had to check a reference on Byzantine history to make sure I got
that one. Made me both laugh and grimace. That joke's far worse than
any of your recent puns. ;-)

SAT W-7
2009-09-18 15:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is Queen D-6 to E-6

Yes i am looking at the battle screen right now and Ivan has the game
0.0 ...dead even...

Should i make a new thread ? This one is getting long.....I think i
will make a new thread..
Look for it..
Sanny
2009-09-18 16:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Ivans move is  Queen D-6 to E-6
GetClub Played - a3

Time: 250 sec
Score: -0.11 loss for GetClub
Depth Ply: 22

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4 Rh4
19. h3 Re8
20. Bd2 Bxd4
21. exd4 Rxd4
22. Rxe8 Bxe8
23. Qe2 Re4
24. Qh5 Qe6
25. a3
Yes i am looking at the battle screen right now and Ivan has the game
0.0 ...dead even...
GetClub gave itself a loss of 0.11 points.
Should i make a new thread ? This one is getting long.....I think i
will make a new thread..
Look for it..
Ok I have seen that thread we can continue there.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny
2009-09-17 07:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
OK NOW BOTH QUEENS ARE BACK , Ivans Queen back on D-6 and GC Queen BACK
on D-I ..........NOW IT IS GC MOVE ......
Now GetClub Played 19. h3

I feel GetClub is at advantage as It shows 0.59 points in favour of
GetClub.
Post by SAT W-7
Hey a lot of people responded to your Hubble Space Telescope question on
Rush board...
I usually talk in Physics group. O like talking about stars and
planets.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
madams
2009-09-17 05:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
Post by Sanny
The game is over now.
.
Post by Sanny
Q-d3 move is due to some Bug. I will remove the bug before playing the
correct move.
------

“A man that will take back a move at Chess will pick a pocket”

-(Richard Fenton)

------

"man that take back move speak with forked knight" - [me] ...

------

"O homem que se move para trás falar com o cavaleiro bifurcado" - [eu]
...

------

"L'uomo che si sposta indietro di parlare con cavaliere biforcuta" -
[me] ...

______
Post by Sanny
Please wait. Here its midnight. So work of removing Bug will take
16-24 hours max.
Bye
Sanny
Sanny
2009-09-17 07:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
I will be removing the Bug and replay whites move. Its an interesting
game So I do not want to disturb the game due to a Bug.
Sat-w-7 wait for tommorow. I will remove the bug and have it play the
correct move. It would be great to see how GetClub plays without the
bug.
GetClub played - P-h3

Time: 200 sec
Score: 0.59+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 20


White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)


GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5 Re8
14. Rb1 Re5
15. Qd1 Qd6
16. Re1 Bd7
17. Nf3 Re4
18. Nd4 Rh4
19. h3

That bug was making it play bad moves. Now you will get a stronger
game. I hope now no more bugs will appear.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny
2009-09-17 07:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
GetClub played Q-d3
19. Qd3
  Yes, say goodbye to this game, Sanny. Almost any human player, even
a below-average one, would have seen the need to play 19.Nf3 or 19.h3.
But GC has just launched itself on another belly-flop into Blunder-
land! I love it!
Yes, you are correct, After the bug was removed GetClub chose 19. h3

Bye
Sanny


Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny
2009-09-14 15:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAT W-7
Ivans move Bishop E-7 to F-6 ...
GetClub played Q-h5

Time: 180 sec
Score: 0.55+ advantage for GetClub
Depth Ply: 24

First time I saw a move with 24 ply depth.

White: GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move)
Black: IVAN Level 8 (20 min / move)

GetClub Normal Level (2 min / move) vs IVAN (20 min / move)

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. e3 e6
4. Bd3 Be7
5. 0-0 0-0
6. Nbd2 Nbd7
7. Ng5 e5
8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxh7 Nxh7
10. Bxh7 Kxh7
11. Qh5+ Kg8
12. Qxe5 Bf6
13. Qh5
Post by SAT W-7
will GC be able to win the game with a pawn advantage ? last time GC
was UP a pawn , Ivan defended well and hung on for a draw.
GetClub is only half point ahead. When atleast 2 points extra then
GetClub will surely win.

This game may also end in a draw if IVAN playes carefully. As it has
got 2 Bishops. And Bishops are very good in End Game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny
2009-09-14 05:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny
  IMO, the not-so-good moves so far are 7.Ng5?! (waste of time)
I have not understood yet why you always say Ng5 a waste move?
  Then you're not likely to understand if I explain it yet again. So I
won't.
Playing h3 weakens Diagonal c2-h7 So Ng5 serves 2 purposes.

1. weakening Diagonal c2-h7
2. Threathening opponents King.

Secondly. In last game you said I should not give any bonus for
Chastling. So today a game was played where GetClub delayed Castling.

Then a few strong players told me GetClub should do Castling Quickly.
They said they have never seen GetClub doing castling on Queenside Do
you think I should give Bonus for Castling???

Earlier I had little bonus for castling. But since you said castling
was bad move in last game I removed the Bonus.

So Both ways I am being pushed. So what do you think. How much bonus
should be given for castling?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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